Career Conversations: Discussion between YA Librarian Llyr Heller and Editors

DISCLAIMER: This is NOT a certified or verbatim transcript, but rather represents only the context of the class or meeting, subject to the inherent limitations of real-time captioning. The primary focus of real-time captioning is general communication access and as such this document is not suitable, acceptable, nor is it intended for use in any type of legal proceeding.

Career Conversations: Discussion between YA Librarian Llyr Heller and Editors

LLYR HELLER: Welcome everyone.Thank you for waiting. Our second guest is about two minutes out so we're going to get ready and start.

My name is Llyr. I've already done my whole spiel, but cell phones on silent, please. Restrooms are right downstairs or in the Art Department, but each floor has some.
Thank you so much for joining us for Career Conversations today. Today we have editors. We have Mark. I'm going to let him introduce himself and tell everyone what he's been doing and how he got there.

So, I think, first we'll go with the first question of what path have you taken to where you are today? And then if we could watch your watch your clips.

MARK PANIK: Sure. It's like the best sales job. It's just pressing play. My name is Mark Panik. I have a company called Don't Panik. I do mostly post production for with a marketing focus. So anything that kind of sells a product or a service: TV show product service, movie, that sort of thing. I've been in business for about 20 years now. I've lived in LA for 17, and I've been in San Diego for about three.

LLYR HELLER: Excellent. I'm so sorry. I was checking on the record. Did you already say how?

MARK PANIK: How's does it work? Is it working? Are we good?

LLYR HELLER: Where you went to school and, if you had any internships, and how you gained your knowledge.

MARK PANIK: I went to school in Santa Barbara that's where Llyr I and met. Film Studies Major. In college, I did an internship for Andrew Davis which is the he directed The Fugitive. That was like his big movie. He's also like the only company in Santa Barbara so you didn't really have many choices. And then I kind of worked with a couple people when I finally moved down to LA to get experience. And then, I just got a job and started paying bills and being an adult and stuff like that.

LLYR HELLER: At your company presently, do you take interns? Do you take high school interns? College interns?

MARK PANIK: No, no interns. [Chuckling].

LLYR HELLER: Good to know. So now we'll go ahead and show the clip. Let's make sure I still have it up. Do you want to talk about what we're about to see?

MARK PANIK: No, it's just it's like a general sales reel that I show people so that so that I don't have to explain what I do. I can just press play, like I said.

LLYR HELLER: Awesome.

MARK PANIK: Yeah.

LLYR HELLER: It's the first one right?

MARK PANIK: Yeah. [VIDEO CLIP] [Up tempo music].

LLYR HELLER: Awesome. You have an excellent name.

MARK PANIK: It wasn't my choice.

LLYR HELLER: It all worked out. What's your favorite you have so many different types of material, what's your favorite thing to work on?

MARK PANIK: Just not a specific project just like type? I've been doing like a lot of like graphic design now. I like graphic design. It's fun. It's different. It's not my training or my background, but people seem to like it and they ask for it. So I guess that's a good sign.

LLYR HELLER: Do you want to show the other?

MARK PANIK: No.

LLYR HELLER: No problem. What what so you work with a lot of freelancers. Do you have to schedule everyone yourself? Do you have a group that you work with? How does that all work out? And what kind of hours do freelancers usually work?

MARK PANIK: They usually work whenever they can. You know, if there's a job, then you're going to be working. It's basically just me. My company is basically just me, but when a project gets big, I scale up. And then, when the project is over, I scale back down again because otherwise people would just be sitting around with nothing to do.

LLYR HELLER: Barbara! Hello! Welcome. So we just started. This is Barbara. So we're only on question two. This is your cohort Mark.

BARBARA DUFFY: Nice to meet you.

LLYR HELLER: So we've just started with the path you've taken to where you are today, the various different jobs one can have with your training and studies. Or if you want to sit for a bit we can...[Chuckling].

BARBARA DUFFY: What path I took?

LLYR HELLER: Like where'd you go to school? What kind of like different jobs you've had before Disney? And where you currently work?

BARBARA DUFFY: Yes. I started I went to USC Film School and studied the production the under grad production program. And you have an opportunity to learn any field within or any discipline within production there. I realized I like the element of where you production is very you have to work with a lot of different people. And I like the side of it where you get to sit by yourself in a darkroom, which is unusual for production. So, um, when I got out of school, I worked as a PA. It was a lot of intensive manual labor for not a lot of money. It was it's a misogynistic industry, as perhaps everyone's heard. It was especially bad in the 90's. [Laughter]. When I was so I started my career in the late 90's and it was just like the wild west. No one was protected.

Both my parents worked in animation. So, when I got a chance to be an assistant editor in animation, I jumped on it. So what I do is anamatics and now I do color. Anamatics are a very niche field that you just have to learn on the job. Nobody teaches it. So, because I I just did an interview with USC with the Student Association and they're like how do you get into the business. That's like the most important question. I'm like nepotism. It's or you know somebody. And everybody says that to you coming up. You have to know somebody. It's not what you do, it's who you know. It's hundred percent true. I don't know if you agree, but...

LLYR HELLER: Sure [Laughter].

BARBARA DUFFY: And for me I had my family in the business. I think as you get older and you establish your work ethic and what you can do, and you can rely more on your skills. But in the beginning, it's who you know. You're working with people for long hours, they want to make sure you're cool cause it's such a drag to work with someone that's a downer. So then I was at [indiscernible] which did The Rugrats and a lot of other Nickelodeon shows. I was at Fox. I worked on the Cleveland Show and a lot of other little things in between, and then Warner Brothers and now Disney.

LLYR HELLER: Great and what do you work on for Disney?

BARBARA DUFFY: I work on Duck Tales.

LLYR HELLER: Awesome.

BARBARA DUFFY: [Chuckling].

LLYR HELLER: Excellent.

BARBARA DUFFY: [Inaudible].

LLYR HELLER: And at Disney, do you take interns? Like college interns? Or high school interns?

BARBARA DUFFY: Yes. I've seen at least college interns. And then some of them they end up getting jobs. So I think it's a great way to get into Disney. It's definitely like once you're in Disney, they want to keep you. So they you're vetted basically, you know. They want to know that you're in it for the long hall because they invest in you and that sort of thing. Yeah, I don't know I'm assuming actually Jasmine who I work with, I believe she got she might have started in high school. She was very young when she got her foot in the door so...

LLYR HELLER: And is there like on film in the like in movies, there's like first assistant, second assistant, do you have that as well? Do you have assistants?

BARBARA DUFFY: Well.

LLYR HELLER: To help you or is it just you?

BARBARA DUFFY: We do have an assistant. She does more of the technical stuff. And, um, she although it seems like a lot of our assistants are older. I think my generation, I was probably at the very tail end of it, started in film and moved to digital. So some of the people who started ten or 20 years before me started in film; and it's nobody works in film anymore. It's all digital and some people just did not make that transition. So, yeah, so we have an assistant within production, not in the post side, there's people who help get us things.

LLYR HELLER: Thank you. The only other question I believe we've had is freelance life versus in house. I know your in house. Is freelance life possible when you work for Disney as an editor?

BARBARA DUFFY: I don't think so, no. I've I kind of asked about that in the beginning. The possibility of working from home or that sort of thing, but they want you there. They're actually as in other as a story board artist are things you can work from home. But, if you're working with the actual footage, and they will not let that out of house. There's no way they're going to let that travel through the vast internets cause it can be stolen and then they'd lose their money.

LLYR HELLER: Makes sense. So you came in on what are the hours like. So you were Mark, you were explaining the hours for freelancers and yourself. And then if you want to both talk about your hours, what's kind of a day in the life of?

BARBARA DUFFY: Well I've worked on two different productions at Disney and they were very different. I was the first one I was on was called Elena of Avalor and it's kind of a spin off of Princess Sophia, which is a huge money, you know, like making endeavor. So I worked on first season of Elena. And we're given nine hours a day. That's what we're paid for nine hours a day. And I worked nine hours a day if not ten, twelve, thirteen, fourteen because it was a new show and it had to be perfect and everyone was looking at it. So working on a show that is just beginning, you're going to be tied to your desk I think.Duck Tales, and it was also a younger crazier, the producer was a little you know, I'll say this, she didn't have a family. So she didn't have hours that she wanted to keep tight either. On Duck Tales everyone has a family. I have kids. We all want to go home. Like it's very important to us. So, on this show, we work eight hours. And, if I work nine hours whatever every once in a while, it's not a big deal, but it's a very family friendly production. So there are people that work many more hours than I do, but I kind of had that written in. Like I can't do overtime cause that's just where I am in my life. So yeah.

LLYR HELLER: Mark, what kind of hours do you work?

MARK PANIK: I work whenever I need to work. So, yeah. I'm mostly at home. So, yeah, I got to set my own boundaries.

LLYR HELLER: [Inaudible] as possible? I mean deadlines.

MARK PANIK: Yeah, as long as you knock it out of the park every time, then yeah, it's very flexible.

LLYR HELLER: So, yeah, if you could describe kind of a day in the life. We always have this question like what exactly do you find yourself doing all day? Like e mail versus, you know, editing versus pulling footage and...

MARK PANIK: I usually wake up and see if there's any emergencies. If there's anything on fire, then I need to address that quickly. I just start my day. A lot of the times, at least what I do, I have to wait on people to get back to me. If I send off a cut or if I have to ask for something or just anything. So I usually try to get an early start so when people get to work, where actually have to work in an office, like when they get to work, they have something to look at or respond to. Then, once I get feedback, then I do the feedback. I send that off. I try to do as much as I can get as much stuff in front of them as I can while they're at work. Cause my work is at home so I'm always there. Yeah, that's about it.

BARBARA DUFFY: I end up actually working on projects. I've done freelance and I know so much of it is like yes it's like waiting for the response so you can make the changes and that sort of thing.

MARK PANIK: [Inaudible] for a side minute.

BARBARA DUFFY: Exactly. Then yeah make sure you get it out as soon as possible.

MARK PANIK: As soon as possible.

BARBARA DUFFY: This is like very I'm on schedule. I have meetings set. So I'm either working by myself in a darkroom, which I love. Or I'm sitting with the director or the supervising the EP's or whatever. So it's a lot of time by myself like actually sitting at a computer making decisions like cut, cut, cut; adding sounds; and, you know, creating this little thing that's going to end up being a full piece of animation. Not a lot of, I really, I'm not a meetings person and I'm glad I don't have to sit in meetings. I get really frustrated. I'd rather just have someone send me notes and that sort of thing, which I imagine you're the same way.

MARK PANIK: Uh huh.

BARBARA DUFFY: Yeah. So...

MARK PANIK: Do you get people that e mail you notes and then call you and tell you or read you the notes.

BARBARA DUFFY: Oh my god. No, not in this job but...

MARK PANIK: Oh, okay.

BARBARA DUFFY: That just makes me like I'm sure right. No, I mean, there are people that like to do that in production because it's exciting. You know it's any way, I'm sure it's the same in any office, you know.

LLYR HELLER: Thank you. So now to pause, any audience questions as of right now? All right.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: Mark well thank you both for being here first. But, Mark, how did the name or who did it come from Don't Panik come about?

MARK PANIK: Well it's my last name. Panik's my last name. And the Don't Panik is from Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy. So everyone would always ask like growing up everyone would always ask is your middle name like don't? Get it Mark, don't panic. Get it? I'm like, yeah, I get it. Like everyone makes that joke. So I figured I had to use it in some way.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: Nice. Okay. And what kinds of things might be on fire when you wake up in the morning?

MARK PANIK: Usually it's deadlines change or expectations change. You know, hey, we gave you two weeks to do this and there's some meeting with somebody and we need to show something in like 20 minutes, you know. Something like that. Hypothetically of course.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: Thank you. I have a question for Barbara. When it comes to editing, is it always Final Cut or is it Avid? I'm just curious, if we're going to get trained, what we should learn?

BARBARA DUFFY: Oh, definitely, yeah. I started in Premiere my very first job. That was switched over to Final Cut. But now Final Cut is no longer being supported. It's now Final Cut X or whatever. There was a professional version of Final Cut, which when I was looking to restart my career, it's expensive to train yourself. So there are resources, at least for Final Cut, there are resources, classes that are subsidized that you can go and get certified through Apple for. As I said though, Final Cut is now obsolete so don't bother learning it. You would be learning Premiere. I mean the version of Final Cut that you have is the consumer version that comes with your Mac, right?

AUDIENCE MEMBER: Well, my father had seven.

BARBARA DUFFY: Right. That's what I use. I mean that's what I use at home. Yeah.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: It's changing and I wanted to know what to get.

BARBARA DUFFY: You'd be getting Premiere or Avid. Avid, I think, that's a pretty cost prohibitive option. As a student, you can get a better price on it. I don't know. Do you have Avid set up?

MARK PANIK: Uh huh.

BARBARA DUFFY: Okay. Yeah. I use Avid now. And I got training through...oh my gosh.

MARK PANIK: [Inaudible].

BARBARA DUFFY: No.

MARK PANIK: [Inaudible].

BARBARA DUFFY: No. Those are good options though. It's in that park. It's a they do a lot of ...

AUDIENCE MEMBER: [Inaudible]

BARBARA DUFFY: No No. [Laughter]. Oh my gosh, I'm blanking. I'll remember, and yeah. I had to get subsidized training for that as well. I don't know. What would you recommend?

MARK PANIK: Software?

BARBARA DUFFY: Yeah.

MARK PANIK: I'd say Premiere.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: Premiere?

MARK PANIK: Yeah. And they're like pretty similar. Similar enough where if you learn one, you can just sort of migrate over to the other one.

BARBARA DUFFY: And there's lots of tutorials online that if you get to know one oops, sorry. There's lots of tutorials online. If you get to know one of them, they'll be like the Premiere to Avid translation kind of thing. I did that for Final Cut. Like how to if you're a Final Cut editor, here are the specific things that you need to know. One of the most important qualities that you need to have as an editor is quick, you know, fast quickness. You need to be able to make decisions quickly. So if you're fumbling with buttons, it's right. I mean you have to make a lot of decisions very quickly especially if someone is sitting behind you. So all the hot keys and that sort of thing, it's kind of important to know. If you're great in one program, you need to know how that translates into the other program. Yeah, does that answer your question?

LLYR HELLER: Thank you. And I'm going to do a quick plug for Linda. We have that's one of our databases through our databases, and I can show later how you get there. [Inaudible].

LLYR HELLER: We'd have to look, yeah. I don't know off hand. Yeah. Okay. Oh, thank you. Say that out loud.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: I know they teach Avid on Linda because that's what they have us use in our editing classes. But I don't know about Premiere. I would assume they have Premiere though.

LLYR HELLER: We can definitely check after. Thank you for that question. I've crossed it off. So your career is very collaborative. How do you keep your relationships strong? And do you have any pros and cons?

BARBARA DUFFY: Do you want to?

MARK PANIK: No, go for it.

BARBARA DUFFY: Okay. Relationships?

LLYR HELLER: Well cause it's very collaborative.

BARBARA DUFFY: Oh.

LLYR HELLER: do you have to be it's kind of an introvert extrovert. Can you be an introvert or do you always have to be an extrovert?

BARBARA DUFFY: Oh, well, I am definitely an introvert. There's no two ways about it. You know, I can leave that realm when I'm talking about work. And I get excited talking about work and that sort of thing. I think it's a great job for an introvert. And I'm sure many people flock to it, many introverts, as I said you spend a lot of time alone. The people I interact with are mainly the director. And I've had many different experiences with working with directors. Some of them this is a really hard lesson this lesson took me a long time to learn; but when you're in an editing bay, it's about the hang as much as it is about your skills. So the person that's sitting behind you, you have to get along with that person or they will not want to work with you anymore. You spend a lot of some people just come to escape whatever they're supposed to be doing at their desk and they don't want to leave your office. So you guys have to be able to talk. I've had some really, really boring conversations with people and I could not get them out of my office. That was our relationship, but you know... And but ideally you work with somebody like now I work with one person in particular and we get along really well. We had to figure out what our senses of humor were, and we had to be able to have we had to have the same aesthetic sensibilities and then just be able to communicate as human beings. Yeah, otherwise I mean you spend hours with this person. If it's not enjoyable, you're going to finding yourself worked out of that equation. And then you work with the EP so the person at the very top of the food chain. And you have to I think one of the hardest things is to set your ego aside when you work with both the director and the EP because you may think you have some amazing ideas, but ultimately it's not your call. These are the people that their jobs are on the line. So they're answering to the network and people above them so they don't really want they don't need to please you, you know. They're not going to do anything to help you feel better about your cuts. You should go make your own films if you really want to make your own decisions. You know, hopefully you're good enough at your job, you are making your decisions are good ones that fit with a show that's not your show. It's a network show, you know. So I think you have to be able to be pleasant and be open and that sort of thing and that's how you build a relationship with these people and keep them steady.

MARK PANIK: I'd just like to touch on the it's like it's collaborative. It's an art form. It's creative. It's definitely a social art form. You know, there's more than one person you know. So, yeah, you have to get along with people. Like a lot of the times I'll do sometimes I'll do one cut or one graphic look that they asked for, and then I'll do one that I like or I'll do a couple, and then they can kind of multiple choice it. You know, we like this one. Usually what they do is we like this one, but we also like that. So can you kind of mash them together, but at least I get to kind of put my idea out there. Most of the time it falls flat, but sometimes they like it. So that's awesome.

LLYR HELLER: Do you find so in the world of libraries I was surprised like how much you go to conferences. You don't have to. You go to mixers. You go to like networking events. Do you two have to do that? Or want to do that?

MARK PANIK: I've tried it. It's never been enjoyable nor led to any sort of work so I stopped doing them.

BARBARA DUFFY: Are you in the Guild? The Guild thing? I don't ever go to the Guild stuff. I think it's important for getting more jobs. I don't think it's once your in on a production, I think you're good. But, you know, I think if you had the time, it would be really smart to go learn about what else is out there and talk to more people and build a community. It sucks looking for work. It's scary. You don't find work unless you know who to ask, you know. So you're not required to, but I would say it's smart to, you know You're probably not going to have to hop on a plane and go to some, you know, some banquet hall in Minnesota. I don't know, but like, it's yeah.

LLYR HELLER: Thank you. Audience questions? Yes? Oh, yeah. Thank you.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: This is a question for both of you. What advice do you have for a beginner putting a reel together?

BARBARA DUFFY: I brought a reel that I really like. It's old. It's the resolution It's standard def. It's old and pixelly, but I love it still. I remember that's what I cut together when I was desperate for work. It's stuff I worked on, but I recut it to music. And I had a lot of fun with it. And I got jobs off of it because the music is interesting. People found it interesting. What I did with the footage was interesting.
If you don't have footage to cut together, I would recommend cut it. I don't know what you would say, but I would recommend cutting other footage together. And just, you know, showing what you know about pacing and timing and style and sensibility. Um, yeah.

MARK PANIK: I would say whatever you work on just save a copy of no matter how good or bad it was. I have lots of stuff that I still have copies of that's terrible that I would never show any of you. But you have to start somewhere, you know, so save everything.

LLYR HELLER: Would you like to show your clip?

BARBARA DUFFY: I'm sure everyone's dying to see it now that I sold it.

LLYR HELLER: I have it ready.

BARBARA DUFFY: [Inaudible]. [Video clip] [Up Tempo Music]

LLYR HELLER: Any questions? Should I move on? I think did you have a question? No, okay. Yes?

AUDIENCE MEMBER: How long can the reel be?

LLYR HELLER: How long should a reel be?

BARBARA DUFFY: Did that feel too long?

AUDIENCE MEMBER: No. [Laughter].

BARBARA DUFFY: Well...

MARK PANIK: However long it needs to be. Not too like a trailer. Think like a trailer so a minute, two minutes maybe.

BARBARA DUFFY: Yeah.

LLYR HELLER: And when you're looking for work do you do posting? Do you send your reel out? How do you like what areas can you look for work at?

MARK PANIK: I'm usually good at repeat business, which is the best kind cause you don't have to go look for it. But, yeah, some job postings. There's groups on Facebook. There's groups on LinkedIn that people will, you know, you can meet people or people will post a project or ask a question about something. You just got to start somewhere.

BARBARA DUFFY: Yeah. I I've found listings on Craig's List. There's but there are Facebook groups now. This is like there are very comprehensive Facebook groups for Avid editors in specific in particular or yeah, I don't know. I mean, I'm in the Editors Guild now and I've never looked for a posting through them, but I don't know. I think there are postings there. Word of mouth is great. That's where most of my jobs have come from. I was very unhappy at a job and I quit, which I'd never done before, and within a week I was hired at Disney simply because the director liked working with me at another company and brought me on and insisted that he work with me. So I really, really can't stress enough how much relationships are important.

But, before then, I would say just do look for listings. Do work for free, which sucks, but you need a reel. And you need to know people. Don't get taken advantage of, but yeah.

LLYR HELLER: Thank you. Yes?

AUDIENCE MEMBER: So you both know the industry. I'm a screen writer, but I lack connections. So do you have any advice how to get some screen plays off the ground?

BARBARA DUFFY: Screen plays...Oh, shift of topic.

MARK PANIK: Write a good script.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: I have scripts, but they say they won't talk to me. They go who do you know? And if I don't know anybody, they won't even listen to a one of my plays.

MARK PANIK: Most places won't accept anything unsolicited.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: Right.

MARK PANIK: So you need some type of representation. If you just blind submit things, no body will look at them just for legal reasons and so forth.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: The agents won't even talk to you unless... (Multiple speakers).

MARK PANIK: Yeah, it's kind of like the catch 22. You know. How do I... the union thing is a great question. How do I get into the union? Well you got to work on union shows. How do I work on union shows? Well you got to be in the union. And it's just a...

AUDIENCE MEMBER: Okay.

LLYR HELLER: And as an aside, one of our Career Conversation speakers for theater, he's a playwright but he also writes screen plays for TV shows so you may want to come back and ask.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: All right [Inaudible].

BARBARA DUFFY: I would also say there's so much now that you can create your own content easily. There's no excuse not to. You can shoot a film on your phone. Just make sure the sound is good. That's what I would say. Otherwise no one will watch it all ever. But you know you can pitch you can make a short film. You know, you find a crew on Craig's List. Features made by friends of mine have been created through Craig's List, you know, posting. And it's you need to know you just need to have you need to know what you're doing, and you need to convince other people to work with you. But is one screen play can you boil it down to five minutes and make that for a thousand bucks or whatever. It's up to it really is up to you to use your imagination. And executives are terrified of losing their jobs more now than ever because all that's making money are really block busters. There's a lot of new media and that sort of thing, but it's really up to you to create it and convince other people that you know that, you know, you have something special. So I would never give up hope because I'm saying this like coming from when you could only shoot on film, it would cost you a crazy amount of money. You would need a cinematographer who was so adept at what they did. That's not the truth anymore, you know, it's it's amazing what you can do just by yourself.

LLYR HELLER: Thank you. What is the employment outlook for this career field? And how much demand is there for entry level job seekers?

MARK PANIK: I'd say that you're you always kind of looking for a job cause everything is so project based. Like when one ends, you know personally I don't want to wait until one ends before I start looking for the next one. So you kind of have to just constantly be drumming up business, and talking with people, and taking meetings, sending things out, posting things online, you know, which is after a while it just kind of becomes a constant thing so you're just kind of always doing it. That's just me.

BARBARA DUFFY: I would say, for entry level, you're probably going to start as a PA. You know you're going to do something that has nothing to do with editing. It's going to be low wages for long hours. And it's not going to look anything like what you think editing looks like. And it's not anything like editing, but you are just learning the production pipeline. Yeah. I'm not even sure that education is that important anymore. I think it's just getting your foot in the door and yeah, I I think in animation editing, we're still we're still people are still trying to figure out what we do. You know like the guild had no idea that we I was called an anamatic operator at one of my jobs so that they could pay me way less, but that's basically that's like the equivalent of like that makes me think of pushing a button and creating this thing. And that's basically how we were seen by the studio. We had to fight to get in the Guild. And this is to answer that question, like we had to have a mediation with the Guild to convince them that we were actual artists. Now there is, yeah. But what I did, like doing the front end of animation, we were not considered editors. We were considered operators or whatever. So the, yeah, there's actually like but what I did, as I said earlier, it's a niche job. If you can get in there, you figure out how to do this job and get in there, you are, you know, you're set because no one is teaching you how to do this. So it's really you're creating your own path, I guess but... Did I answer your question?

AUDIENCE MEMBER: [Inaudible].

LLYR HELLER: Thank you.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: What is the job? If you can .

BARBARA DUFFY: Oh, right. Okay.

MARK PANIK: That's how niche it is.

BARBARA DUFFY: Right. Yeah. For animation, like editing, you're given footage and you cut it together. Animation you're creating the blueprint that like with the sound and picture that is then sent off to be animated. And then it's animated usually overseas. It's what you see on television. It comes back and then you further work with it. It's totally different than live action in that respect. Um, so you're taking still images that someone's drawn and you connect it with the dialogue and create sound effects. You create the timing for this. So when someone who's never met you, never talked to you about your ideas, sees this, you know, in another country, they know what you're going for. And they create this very complicated animation based on what you've done. So it's it doesn't look like anything that you'll end up seeing, but it's required in order to create that. That's an answer. Oh, I mean, it's done like we use Story Board Pro now to do it. It's been done in Photoshop before. It's gone through all those as digital become prevalent it used to be we would take photographers of still drawings and put them in a timeline. But now it's created in Story Board Pro that's a program that's used and then output to us. So are you, do you work with a program? Or?...

AUDIENCE MEMBER: All the Adobe Suites.

BARBARA DUFFY: Okay.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: But this is fascinating.

BARBARA DUFFY: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I guess it's not. I don't think it's taught really. Like yeah. I don't know. Yeah. I've looked for tutorials in the past when I was trying to get a leg up, and I really couldn't find anything, but hopefully that's changing. Yeah.

LLYR HELLER: We have a few minutes left. Does anyone have any last questions? Yes?

AUDIENCE MEMBER: When you guys are editing your reels, how exactly do you choose your footage? Or what to put in there? Or do you just put like your favorite things? Or is there a specific thing like a specific mood that you're going for or?

BARBARA DUFFY: For my reel, I was really the music inspired me first. I needed to find something that I wanted to spend weeks listening to again, again, and again. You I think you kind of have to love love something about it as you're beginning. You know, for me it was the music. And then I just tried you know, I just experimented with rhythm with yeah. Sometimes I would even cut in or cut out. I would create a camera move within a still image. You know, I just I wanted something that the minute that someone pushes play, they have to be hooked or the second. So I just you know I kind of went off of that. You know what's a flashy image. And what does it look fun next too. What makes me laugh. That's always my go to. What do I find funny and whimsical and you know. And how many shows have I worked on. You know, someone might look at that and go oh, I know that show. Like I know someone that worked on that show. I can ask them about her. Or, you know, that brings back a good memory of, you know, I've seen that show. I worked on that show. I know someone who's worked on that show. That sort of thing. So it's conversation starter content as well. But I would say in general you have to feel it. You have to feel that it's interesting to you. What interests you. Because ultimately like the last job I got hired for, they asked me what movies do you like? What makes you laugh? What's your um how do you spend your free time. Those kind of questions. If that can be reflected, that aesthetic or those preferences or, you know, can be reflected in your reel, I think you've done a good job.

MARK PANIK: Ah.

LLYR HELLER: Do you want to answer the oh, go ahead and follow up first and then we'll get the question.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: Me.

LLYR HELLER: No. Mark.

MARK PANIK: [Inaudible].

AUDIENCE MEMBER: So based on your personalities or the things you do can help you on your work or on your what you do in your animations or illustrations or your career basically. [Inaudible]. Um, does your like do your interests or things your passionate about help you in your career?

BARBARA DUFFY: Yes, I will say that 100 percent. And actually I have a really good example of that. When I'm not animating I don't do this anymore, but I used to be a Mexican wrestler. I know that sounds totally left field. I was a Mexican wrestler for ten years. Seriously. People have hired me because of that. That has nothing to do with animation or my skills at sitting at a desk. It is something interesting that they can talk to me about. So I would also say have a life outside of what you do. Your personality is very important. And what you've accomplished outside of animation I see this a lot also in the acting world, which is entertainment. It's related. A casting director wants is to know who you are as a person. They don't want to know about your last acting job because you're here for a new acting job; right. This is very prevalent so I mention it in the world of acting. Less so in editing because you need to have very specific technical skill, but it's just so crucial to be a well rounded human being, you know. And so, if you can have something, like I have Mexican wrestling in my past, if I can talk about that, suddenly we have an animated discussion. I'm smiling. They're smiling. You know, it's a good vibe in the room that type of thing. So I would say 100 percent, yes. So even, if you don't have the technical skills yet, don't lose hope. You know, because you're a good person, you're an interesting person. And you have and, you know, you're a fun person, all that sort of stuff, and that's worth a lot I think.

MARK PANIK: I think the advice is start Mexican wrestling. [Laughter].

LLYR HELLER: We all want to be know more now.

MARK PANIK: Yeah, but it's like but it's like a great point because it's super memorable. Like if anybody even forget your name, but remember the woman we had that was the Mexican wrestler, let's bring her back. Yeah.

BARBARA DUFFY: So true.

LLYR HELLER: Okay. Last question.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: This is a side topic, but do you ever want to make your own movie about Mexican wrestling from a woman's point of view?

BARBARA DUFFY: Indeed. And I admire you for writing many screen plays because I cannot sit down and write for more than an hour without getting up and, you know, running around. Um, yes and I have not made I've been in other people's movies about wrestling. I have made a bunch of little short films, which I also can't recommend highly enough as an editor to make your own films and edit those films because that will be the most interesting thing you've ever worked on is your own product. And you will be making decisions for yourself. You'll be make the best decisions of your life because it's your film. You know, and those decisions will stick with you. And you'll also have stuff for a reel eventually. So yeah.

LLYR HELLER: We have one more question.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: So based on you make your reel. You're putting your work out there, how do you get feedback if you're not getting hired. I'm just thinking in the future because you don't want to just keep putting your stuff out there not knowing that your material might be the problem.

BARBARA DUFFY: Do you have this town, I would say the industry here is entertainment; right. Like everybody works in entertainment here. You would be hard pressed not to be able to find a mentor. I think a lot of people are very willing to share their time because nobody got to where they were without being helped. So go on LinkedIn. Any find someone who works in the industry you want and just introduce yourself. Offer something to them. Don't ask them for feedback immediately. Say I've take the time to research them. See what they've done. Do you like it? Do you truly like it? Do you want to work with that person? Send them an e mail. Try to make a connection. Say like how can I support you, you know? Even though you're starting out, what can I do for you. And then build a relationship, ask for feedback for your stuff. You know, I never could believe being an introvert, I can never believe and being so shy that anyone would want to help me, but I was going about it the wrong way. I was like what can they give me you know. But I also didn't value myself enough to think I could offer help to somebody else. But you can. You can there's you can do anything to help somebody. People are so busy and you know yeah. So just know that you have value as a person. And, you know, you could be who knows where your career's going. You know people want to be nice to the people below them as well, because that's just the way this industry is. You know you start off on the bottom and you can in a year be really far up. So make personal connections. And we're just surrounded by entertainment. Even if it's not an editor, if it's a screen writer everyone thinks and to a certain extent does have some understanding of how film works. So even if it's not an editor, they probably have some good feedback for you.

LLYR HELLER: Thank you so much. I'm going is to end on a light question. Do you have a favorite TV show or movie that you think is very well edited? Other than your own.

BARBARA DUFFY: Oh, my gosh.

MARK PANIK: I've been watching New Girl. You know it's a couple years out now, but the comedy timing in it is super funny. It's like spot on. It's well written. It's well acted. And like well cut. Like all the comedic timings are like right where they want to be.

BARBARA DUFFY: I don't have an answer to that question and I really should. I will tell this other story, I was watching 50 Shades of Grey in the theater. I don't know why. I thought it would be funny. It wasn't. But I did notice it was really cut together. It flowed. For such a stupid story, some questionable acting I looked at the credits, the woman who edited it, she edited Lawrence of Arabia. So I thought that was so interesting that like and she's someone I know tangentially so all I can picture is what is her story. Probably the director, someone on the crew high up in production was like we need you to save this film. Will you please come on. I'm sure she never told anyone about it. You know, I had to dig to find out. I've never read an article that she's written about it, but that's an example of how editing can save what might have been a real dumpster fire.

LLYR HELLER: Thank you so much. Thank you both so much to giving up some Saturday to be with us here.

CAREER CONVERSATIONS PODCAST, February 2019, CAPTIONED BY TOTAL RECALL, www.yourcaptioner.com